Coach Class
Coach Class
Interview with Marjorie Thompson, ex CND, RCN, CRE, Saatchi & Saatchi
Marjorie Ellis Thompson has worked on Capitol Hill and in Parliament, as a lobbyist for CND and the Royal College of Nursing, head of communications for the Commission for Racial Equality and founded Saatchi & Saatchi Cause Connection.
She was also chair of CND during the first Gulf War and is co-author of Brand Spirit: How Cause Related Marketing Builds Brands with Hamish Pringle.
I had the pleasure of meeting Marjorie in 1998 when I interviewed her for my university dissertation on cause related marketing, which led to a summer internship at Saatchis.
In this conversation we reflect on the way Marjorie created diverse teams, and gave people around her opportunities through her collaborative leadership approach. Rotating chairs for meetings, taking young interns to client presentations, bringing people into Westminster to experience where decisions are made.
Marjorie had a huge impact on my early career and gave me the confidence to me my full self in my first role at Green Flag.
She opened up doors for people, invited them into the room, respected their intelligence and empowered them to be integral parts of her team.
She likes to think she remains American, when you see a wall you climb over it. Barriers need to be taken down so that citizens find out their representative democracy works.
Marjorie was inspired by a trip to Washington DC with her mother to visit a friend Sylvia Bacon. Sylvia was a judge of the Superior Court of the District of Columbia, and was considered by both Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan as a potential nominee to the Supreme Court of the United States, at a time when no women had yet been appointed to the Court.
She also looks to civil rights leader John Lewis who famously said: "It's alright to get in trouble, good trouble!". It is something Marjorie has tried to do all her life. And if she's making trouble, make it for a good cause.
Marjorie has the ability to be connected and educated, but not exclude you from being in the know. She brings people along with her.
She knows how important it is that others believe in you.
A truly inspirational leader. Capable of everything.
If you enjoy listening to this podcast why not check out some of the others in season 1 & 2. Or perhaps you fancy taking part yourself? If so why not get in touch. You can find me via LinkedIn or Twitter
Welcome back to Coach Class with me Dom Burch. This is the podcast where I get to speak to people that have had a positive impact in my career or my life and who I found inspirational. I'm delighted this week to be joined down the line by Marjorie Thompson, now Marjorie and I go back to, I want to say the date, I think it is 1998 when I was writing my dissertation at Leeds, and Marjorie kindly responded to my little begging letter to be included in my research for my dissertation, Marjorie, welcome to Coach Class.
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:Great to be here Dominic
Dom Burch:I remember this really, really clearly. So I remember being in the university library thumbing through like this kind of CD ROM system, pre Google pre kind of worldwide interweb being everywhere, and finding an article that you'd been included in with The Independent talking about cause related marketing. And that is what my dissertation was all about. And I must have written you. I mean, maybe it was an email, I don't know, maybe I penned an email to you, and you were kind enough to respond. And then you invited me down to come down and interview you. And that's, that's where we first came into contact.
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:It's incredible all those years ago, isn't it and, and Saatchis isn't even there anymore. It's, it's now luxury flats.
Dom Burch:Isn't it funny because I used to walk past Charlotte Street occasionally when I was down in London, and I'd always walk past what I think was your little office. And I remember used to squeeze an awful lot of things into that office and a lot of interns as well, there were about three of us on the go at any one time. Remind us that remind us about that role that you had at Saatchi's because it was really innovative at the time, wasn't it? You'd been at the Commission for Racial Equality. You'd been running the Royal College of Nursing and then and CND I think and then you ended up this kind of old boy, very posh. Everyone wearing signet rings advertising agency.
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:Yeah, it's a it's is a funny story. And it brings in even people related to Donald Trump. Steve Hilton, who was later David Cameron's advisor, and now has a West Coast television show called The Next Revolution with Steve Hilton, where he trumpets the good things about Trump. So he says. He was working at Saatchi's and I had suggested to my campaigns team at the commission of racial equality that we try to get a pro bono advertising relationship where they would give us their creative time for free and we would be able to raise money for production costs. And my at my assistant, Louise, Ansari, said, Oh, you know, I've just heard that the anti racist Alliance has got sacis interested in them. And we had we had a few good agencies interested in us that specialist agencies from the West Midlands, and I was like, really, I can't believe that I can't believe Saatchi's would would go for that organisation and not us the commission racial equality, why don't you just ring them up? And she did ring up. And of course, they hadn't volunteered to do it for anybody, either the anti racist Alliance or us but Steve Hilton said, Yeah, you know, we're interested in and that went on to be like an award winning campaign. It was the first time ever including when the brothers were there, because there was a bad split corporate split. They won the Golden Lion at Cannes. So I was trying to think, what am I going to do next after the CRE? You know, that had kind of been what I'd always wanted to do, ever since being a kid in the US during the Civil Rights Movement. I really didn't know what I was going to do next. And I said to Saatchi's, why don't we try to set up a unit where brands can partner with good causes, because brands seem to have the communications nouse, and money and spend that good causes don't have so I ended up in this environment, which I now realise was a fairly hostile environment. But I was extremely fortuitous to meet Hamish Pringle, because he was not hostile, hostile. He had been Chairman or vice chairman of six London agencies and his agency had been bought by Saatchi's before so that kind of put him in this vice chairman role and he was kind of casting about for stuff to do and being a guy who's a Christian in a nice understated way, not in an obnoxious fundamentalist way. He cared about social issues and and he was really, really keen on this idea. But of course, we didn't have the budget to hire anybody else to help and I ended up getting this amazing group of young people of which you know, you were one of the superstars to come in and be interns, and it was hilarious because we'd be on that corridor with all those people. I don't know if you were there when we used to steal biscuits from the trolley that was going upstairs to the World Saatchi people but yeah, we had a good laugh.
Dom Burch:I remember cuz I was living at home while I was in Leeds, but I remember coming back living at home, my mum and dad, and you were paying I think for my train fare from Paddington to Reading each day, and me and Joshua, were given like a two pound 50 lunch voucher, which allowed us to go into the staff canteen and get some, some lunch. And we played pool together. And we were just like in this amazing world that we thought we'd never well probably would never have experienced having been at school and university. And we were taken to meetings with people like British Home Stores. And suddenly, we were there, having prepared a deck for you. And we would sit there and the thing that you did, which was at the time, just remarkable to me, as a sort of like wide eyed kind of, like, 21 year old or whatever I was, you'd ask my opinion, in the middle of a meeting, you'd say, Well, what does Dom think, what do you think Dominic? And I remember just thinking, wow, isn't that isn't that staggering?
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:Well, you know, I mean, my generation is the kind of transitional generation. And I think companies are even now coming to the conclusion that diverse teams are better, you know, mix of ethnicity, mix of gender, and so on. But I think I love hearing that story from you. Because I like to believe that I've always been a more collaborative leader than a top down leader, and certainly at the CRE and later another positions, like we would have these team meetings, and we would have a rotating chair so that everybody got the chance to learn how to chair a meeting and acquire a skill. And I think, you know, maybe some people would have thought it was disrespectful to clients to bring in young interns, but you know, half the thing about ad agencies is they, although they're composed of, you know, men in black polo necks who snort cocaine is they always want to be in touch with the youth market and the youth vibe. And I think you Joshua, some of the other young people that came I want to say kids, but that's not you know, respectful enough for people who are over 21. I think that, that you guys were sort of built in focus group in terms of how messages would be perceived.
Dom Burch:Now, the other thing I remember I really, really wanted to come and work with you properly, like proper job. I remember I got an opportunity to come and work for like a PR job entry level PR job back in Leeds for like the poor man's equivalent of The AA. It was like Green Flag, who are they? Nobody knew what they did, really, because they just rebranded. And I remember searching in that job for some meaning because you know, I've just been involved in these amazing tripartite schemes between, you know railtrack, and the Samaritans and I just had the most amazing time. I remember you saying to me, you need to find find the meaning in it Dom, you're helping people this is a recovery business, you know, and you tried to help me go in and be my full self to that job, rather than approach it as kind of like, second best and I remember going into that role and going, Okay, well, what can we do then as a breakdown organisation? What kind of cause related good could we do as an organisation But fundamentally, it's just like, I don't know, an extra version of the pollice turning up to the crashes on the M4 or whatever it was. So you really like energised me to go into that job with I don't know with some ambition and some anything was possible. That's how I felt anyway.
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:That's fantastic. And, and the other fun story I remember of course, is that before you went for your interview, Hamish felt you should get a haircut so he gave you the money to go to one of those posh barbers in Fitzrovia.
Dom Burch:That's true even the time it cost like 25 pounds, I couldn't believe anyone would spend more than four quid on getting a haircut. That's right. He sent me off to like the equivalent a Tony and Guy and I came back and I think I'd only had about quarter of an inch taken off and I felt like I was almost bald. Yeah, no, that's funny. But let's say, you know, at the time, you and Hamish were writing this book Brand Spirit, weren't you? And part of what we did in addition to like, getting to play at being young ad execs was we actually did some of the research that went into the book.
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:Yeah, you did. And I think when you also calling up the brands that we were going to feature and getting permissions to use their imagery and things like that.
Dom Burch:Yeah, that's right. I mean, I remember there was one time actually when the phone rang and, and I thought it was Gordon Brown and it turned out it was his brother I think who you knew. I remember thinking, oh, my God. I've got like the, the Chancellor Exchequer on the phone now. I mean, you moved in, in my head, so we went on so we went once. So this is the other thing you did you open up doors for people. So we went to the House of Commons and there was a Baroness you knew and we met, and we went and sat in what I thought was like a museum. It was like going into this really strange world. We walked into parliament, and you knew everybody and you'd been a researcher so you just walked around the place like you owned the Houses of Parliament. I will never forget the look on a security guards face when you just said "don't worry he is with me!" and we just walked through, you know, and we sat in this bar and there were just these old fuddy duddy men that were kind of covered in dust looked like they were half dead already, which were the aristocracy. This was the lords and ladies of Parliament of which, as a young kid from Reading, I knew nothing about that world.
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:I like to think even though I've been over here for a very long time that I remain essentially American in that the kind of culture is you see a wall, you climb over it, you don't just sit down and go, Oh, there's this wall, I can't do anything. I can't go anywhere. And and, you know, I always have felt that certainly barriers need to be taken down so that the citizens who are the taxpayers can find out how their representative democracy works. And I just remember another funny story. Because Joshua, I was it was great, you know, we kind of integrated Saatchis, there were very few black people at Saatchis. And I remember he was standing talking to the World Chairman at one Christmas party, and looking at everybody dancing, and the World Chairman looked at him and he goes, "it's not great is it?" And Joshua goes "no everybody's like off the beat by about one second". That was probably you know, you know, I think was really refreshing for all of you guys to be there and and being from a different world because you're absolutely right, both the advertising world and the House of Lords world, they kind of are, what would you call it self self referring institutions. So you know, the children of MPs sometimes go on to be MPs and journalists, certainly the ad agencies, until Hamish incredibly, became director general of the Institute for Practitioners and Advertising. And he and his president Stephen Woodford decided to tackle the issue of equality in advertising and get more, not only black and Asian people depicted in ads, but more people actually working in the industry. And so you know, I think, what is it? It's like atomic fission, isn't it a chain reaction? Me meeting you, Joshua, the other young people me meeting Hamish, Hamish going on to that. So I like to think that we, we all tried to make the best we could out of the opportunities that we had.
Dom Burch:And who inspired you? So who was, when you think back to like, growing up in California coming over to the UK, who were the people outside of Hamish who I know was a huge impact and probably still is, and I know he's, you know, I catch up with him every now and then. And he's now an artist. Who were the people when you were growing up or in your early career that really left a mark. And either were leaders that you wanted to be more like, or were just inspirational?
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:I do remember going to Washington DC with my mother to visit a college friend of hers. And my mother said, Oh, you know, poor Sylvia, she's a spinster like, okay, right. So your main thing in life is not really always to just go out and get married. Sylvia, Sylvia Bacon was one of the first female federal judges Richard Nixon appointed her ironically, to be a judge. And so we went out for a meal, I was probably about 11. And we went to some lobster place. I said, Oh, I'd like the lobster. My mother said we can't afford it. And Sylvia said, I'm paying she can have whatever she wants. Then we went back to her apartment, which to me was heaven. It was covered, you know, with bookshelves. And she and my mother sort of caught up and I was reading a book about John Dillinger. He was like a Chicago mobster. And I thought, Oh, I think I'd like to be an FBI agent. Well, obviously, I didn't become an FBI agent. But I liked that idea of being you know, the independent, professional woman and having lots of books that really appealed to me. But you know, you have you have high school and college professors, lectures that kind of inspire you or who believe in you. I think that's the important thing. I think, you know, maybe when I was the age that you were, and I took a punt on you guys. I think that it's very important. Because really, no matter how confident people appear from the outside, you're just still trying to find your way in the world and wondering where you'll fit in. And so professors that I had, I had a professor of English history, George Drake, it was great when he came over on a semester abroad, and I got to take him around the house of commons because I'd learned all my English history from him and I took him on the Line of Route and we went and looked at Charles I death warrant now House of Lords. And, you know, he, he, I just took him to the cafeteria and he said, Oh, you know, I never realised that you would come here and be so fully part of British life and all these people, you know, and it said, Great, you're doing the peace movement, I think, yeah, that's really influenced Mr. Gorbachev. He was a very key person. I mean, three of the girls were in his class, we ended up over here marrying Irish, Welsh and English men. And then another professor, I had Carolyn Wilson, she was not much older than I was. She's about eight years older than I was when she was teaching us history. I'm still in touch with her. She had this incredible belief, I met up with her again, on my way down to Latin America a few years ago, and she embarrassed me because she said to my friend who was travelling with me, Oh, you know, she was one of my brightest students, and I still kind of rolled my eyes because, um, you know, obviously, meeting all the people that we met people from places like Oxford and places like that one could be one could be very intimidated if one didn't have all those, all those sort of credentials. But I suppose the real inspiration for me, just as a kid, were some of the civil rights leaders, not only Martin Luther King, but John Lewis, who just died, I think last year, he was one of the people that marched across the Edmund Pettus Bridge, and was, you know, attacked by Alsatian dogs and fire hoses and that sort of thing. And he said, one of his themes is, it's all right to get in trouble, good trouble. And so I suppose that's what I've tried to do my whole life is be in good trouble. And if I'm making trouble, make it trouble for a good reason.
Dom Burch:What you've just reminded me of, is your ability to let people know about things that you know, and the people that you know, and the life that you've led, and the, you know, the amazing history that you're cognizant of, and the impact of politics and campaigning and standing for something and not being afraid. But you don't belittle people when they don't understand or they haven't heard the name, or they haven't come with you. Just as you were describing that story, your assumption that people will know, but if they don't, it's okay, I think was a hugely impactful thing on me when I was younger, because I think I used to sit there and feel like, Oh, my God, this woman knows everybody. I mean, literally, everybody, everybody in the world. Somehow, Marjorie Thompson is connected to them. But it wasn't like a secret club that you had the keys to you were just like, Yeah, sure. And if you don't know them, that's fine. But I'm going to tell you anyway,
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:or bring you along to meet them.
Dom Burch:He absolutely,
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:yeah. And I you know, it's funny, because at the CRE again, the the Westminster scenario was a lot different 20 years ago, and I would take some of my staff with me to various receptions and things and one of them's now a barrister. But it was so funny because, you know, I would march in with this crew of black guys and Asian women and we had this buzz around us and I think it was the same with the volunteers Saatchis, you know, we were kind of outsiders in the organisation, but there was always a you know, and it wasn't just me, it was how we all created that together the energy and the excitement and the positivity. And you know, Paolo Attorray, the now unfortunately deceased, former chairman of Saatchi Europe, but Saatchi Italy, you know, he he believed in good causes. He had a charity inside the Saatchi Italy office called Ponte, which means bridge and it was for, you know, Iraqi children who had been affected by the Gulf War. And when he came to one of those glitzy Saatchi Christmas dues, you know, some of the mainstream people like, oh, what are you doing with those people? You know, because connection people and he's like, what did you say? Didhe say those are my people or we share the same values or something like that. And that's why the second Brand Spirit book was dedicated to him. Because, you know, he was an incredible advocate for the power of doing well, by doing good.
Dom Burch:Well, Marjorie, it feels like we've just only just finished talking from the last time we spoke like a week ago, and it's probably been months and years. And yet, that connection that you make an imprint on other people and the amount of people you must have inspired to go off and do things they never realised they were capable of doing, I think is just absolutely fantastic. I just want to say thank you, you had such an important mark on me. I felt like I was lucky to have bumped into you and your generosity. And I don't know just that confidence you give people by saying Go for it. You can
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:Well, I don't know if it's, um, you know, if it's like some naive optimism, but I just do know myself how important it is that people believe in you and I and I'll just finish with one slight anecdote. I came over to the LSE after I did my first degree and I did a master's degree in West European politics, and I felt very intimidated by the other people because they were so confident and so sophisticated. They were from Harvard and Yale, just let your Oxford and Cambridge and I got a letter from one of my professors when I'd done a semester abroad at LSE, a couple years previously, and he was a really important guy Professor F. S. Northedge who wrote the main books about, you know, international relations during the Cold War. And, you know, I was not that well read or bright when I first met him. He's like, What do you know about World War Two? And I said, Well, I know there was two men with an umbrella like thinking of Neville Chamberlain coming back from appeasing Hitler. And yet, you know, once we finished the course, and I was back at Colorado College, he wrote to me said when I think of M Thompson, I will think of what the French call comparable de tous, which means capable of everything and that's the kind of thing I try to pass on to, to you guys. You know, you have the right instincts, you're really wide open and enthusiastic and willing to learn and and you know, to hear you say that it's kind of it's gratifying, but it's also a bit humbling. It makes me a little bit tearful.
Dom Burch:Well, before we both well up, then let me just say one last. Thank you, Marjorie has been absolute pleasure catching up with you on Coach Class. Thank you.
Marjorie Ellis Thompson:Thanks for having me.